they're just saying specifically not obama care. very unpopular law. >> and do you think -- okay, no question, but do you think that they can basically make that case and make it about that, when obama's going to be saying the opposite? he's going to be saying, republicans want to shut down the government in order to deny health care to poor people. that will be the debate. >> but that's -- >> i'm not saying he's right, but that's what he'll say. >> you can clearly state this is not about poor people, they already get medicaid. obama care is about hooking the rest of us -- >> you're already explaining, sir. >> i don't see a lot of downside here. because if either they force some reform, maybe even if it's too much to hope that they get the president to kill obama care, maybe they enforce some delays in the implementation of it. on the other hand, what do you have? you have -- the government shuts down for a few days. maybe some epa employees will be considered nonessential and people will be able to drill for more oil. i mean, i don